Meet the Press – June 8, 2025
KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Big, beautiful breakup. The feud between President Trump and Elon Musk explodes over the president’s tax and spending bill.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’m very disappointed because Elon knew the inner workings of this bill.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
I think he’s flat wrong. I think he’s way off on this.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Breaking news – Elon Musk and I agree with each other.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can President Trump convince reluctant Republicans worried the bill will grow the deficit to sign on?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
We will get this done one way or the other, and it’s not going to be easy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma and Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. Plus: returned and charged. Months after being mistakenly deported to El Salvador, Kilmar Abrego Garcia is returned to the U.S. to face charges.
ATTORNEY GENERAL PAM BONDI:
Abrego Garcia has landed in the United States to face justice.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: healing powers. Actor Olivia Munn shares her cancer battle and surrogacy journey in our “Meet the Moment” conversation.
OLIVIA MUNN:
It’s hard to explain knowing that this diagnosis that put so much fear into me has been able to be turned into something that’s saving people’s lives.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Melanie Zanona; Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for Puck; Symone Sanders Townsend, former Chief Spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris; and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Elon Musk’s criticism of President Trump’s tax and spending bill erupted into a bitter public fight this week, with Musk going so far as to agree with a call for President Trump’s impeachment.
Musk blasted the Republican spending bill as a quote “disgusting abomination” and urged GOP lawmakers to kill it.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’m very disappointed because Elon knew the inner workings of this bill better than almost anybody sitting here.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In a phone call on Saturday, President Trump told me that he has no desire to repair his ties with Musk. And asked if his relationship with Musk is over, he told me, quote, “I would assume so.” As Republicans race to pass the president’s signature piece of legislation, the breakup between two of the world’s most powerful men is highlighting divisions on Capitol Hill. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office analysis found the bill would add $2.4 trillion to the debt over the next decade. Fiscal hawks in the Senate worry about voting for a bill that will add more to the deficit.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I can’t, in good conscience, give up every principle that I stand for and every principle that I was elected upon, and that’s that we can’t accumulate more debt.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Failure is not an option. We will get this done one way or the other. And it’s not going to be easy.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump telling me he remains “very confident” that he can still get the bill passed before July 4th and claimed the Republican Party is more unified now because of how Musk treated him. When I asked President Trump if he thinks Musk could sink the bill, he told me, “I don’t think he has the power to do it.” Musk spent more than a quarter billion dollars helping Trump return to the White House. Musk posting this week, “Without me, Trump would have lost the election.” As for concerns that Musk might fund Democrats in the future, President Trump told me, “If he does, he’ll have to pay the consequences.” Meanwhile, on Friday, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who the Trump administration had mistakenly deported to El Salvador, was flown back to the United States to face charges of human smuggling.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ATTORNEY GENERAL PAM BONDI:
Abrego Garcia has landed in the United States to face justice.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In April, the Supreme Court ordered the Trump administration to facilitate his return. President Trump telling me he did not call the president of El Salvador to directly ask for Abrego Garcia’s return. Asked if he brought him back to the U.S. because of the court’s order, Mr. Trump said it wasn’t his decision, it was handled by the Justice Department, and believes, quote, “It should be a very easy case.” Over the weekend, chaotic scenes played out on the streets of Los Angeles where protestors clashed with authorities conducting workplace immigration raids. And overnight, President Trump ordering 2,000 National Guard troops to the city. California’s governor, Gavin Newsom, called the move unnecessary and said it will only “escalate tensions.” NBC’s Jacob Soboroff spoke to the border czar Tom Homan.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JACOB SOBOROFF:
I’d love to get your response to Governor Newsom saying, essentially, that your actions here are provocative, and the quote that he used was “sowing chaos”.
TOM HOMAN:
Governor Newsom is an embarrassment for the state. He’s the one that’s feeding this mantra. He supports sanctuary cities, he supports sanctuary laws. If he cared – if he cared about public safety in the state of California, he would not have a sanctuary for criminals, where criminals get released to the streets of this state every day because of his policy.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. Senator Lankford, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Thank you. Good Sunday morning to you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning to you. Thank you for being here. Let’s start right there with President Trump’s decision to deploy the National Guard, 2,000 troops. He says it is the first time that a president will have deployed the National Guard without a governor’s sign-off since 1965. How do you respond to Governor Newsom who says that this move will only escalate tensions?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, I think what President Trump’s trying to do is pretty clear. He’s trying to deescalate all the tensions that are there. We’re watching as Americans scenes of burning cars in intersections, and people waving American flags at local law enforcement. Concrete blocks being thrown at federal law enforcement. We watched this kind of scene five, six years ago when there was a takeover in the Northwest around Seattle and Portland. When we watched all that happen and local law enforcement was being challenged over and over again, it finally took a National Guard presence to be able to bring it down after weeks. What President Trump is trying to do is say, “This is not going to take weeks this time. We’re not going to allow this to be able to spiral out of control.” This is an American city, and to be able to have an American city where we have people literally flying Mexican flags and saying, “You cannot arrest us,” cannot be allowed. If someone violates the law, no matter what state that they’re in, they’re in violation of a federal law. They should face consequences for that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well you know, senator, Governor Newsom says there is no unmet law enforcement need. The LAPD says the protests were peaceful. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth now warning active duty Marines could be mobilized. Would you support mobilizing the Marines? And do you think Congress would need to sign off on that first?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah. Well, active duty Marines are not going to be put into local law enforcement. They would be in support roles on it, as we have in the border. We have active duty military at the border, but they’re not doing law enforcement tasks; they’re doing logistical tasks behind the scenes. Local law enforcement should take care of this. But again, when you’re seeing burning cars and federal law enforcement and law enforcement being attacked on the streets, and with thousands of LAPD, which by the way, do a great job. The LAPD has a great task in front of them and they’re doing – they’re meeting that task with a great opportunity to be able to actually enforce the law. But it’s clear that they’re being overwhelmed, and as the protests rise we want to make sure those protests actually don’t spiral out of control. Again, this wouldn’t be an issue if California didn’t promote sanctuary city policies to be able to tell people literally, “You can violate federal law and live in our state, and no one will arrest you for this.” Now suddenly when they are arrested for federal crimes then suddenly they go into this kind of protest saying, “No, you can’t arrest us here. We’re immune from federal law.” That’s not true.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let’s move onto the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. The Supreme Court back in April actually ordered the Trump administration to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia. It is now June, Senator. Should President Trump have had and ordered him to be returned sooner than right now?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, they have gone through the legal back and forth on this, and I know some lawyers said, “Hey, it’s not required,” others said it was, based on how they would argue that out. They’ve argued it out, that’s what happens in the justice system. A federal grand jury has now indicted him. He has been returned under the indictment of a federal grand jury for human smuggling, and he will face those charges. Then probably if he’s convicted will face prison time with that. So, that is the justice system working through the process.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, senator, isn’t the point that Abrego Garcia or anyone should have due process first before they are deported and sent to a Salvadoran prison?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
So every person is given due process. But someone who is not a citizen of the United States has very different due process than someone who is a citizen of the United States. The administration has been very, very clear, everyone gets due process here. But if you’re an American citizen you’re facing a court, you’re going through a jury, you’re going through all those things that American citizens have those right for. But I would tell you, many individuals when they cross our southern border are told by a federal law enforcement official that arrest them, “This is what you have violated and you’re being returned.” If you’re along our border – it was so even in the final days of the Biden administration I watched it happen, where they were literally picked up, were told, “You’ve violated federal law,” and within hours were turned around.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is worth noting the Constitution does say that all persons in the U.S. are entitled to due process. Doesn’t make a distinction about citizenship. I do want to move on, though, to this extraordinary fight –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
But just one quick statement on that. The due process as the court has ruled on an American citizen is different than someone who’s not legally present in the country. It’s a faster process. Literally reading to them the statute and saying, “This is what you violated,” does count as due process depending on how they’ve actually entered into the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But I mean, the U.S. has provided due process even to terrorists, senator. You’re saying that people who are here who don’t have citizenship–
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
No, absolutely —
KRISTEN WELKER:
– aren’t entitled to due process, even though the Fifth Amendment guarantees it —
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
No, not saying that at all, Kristen. Yeah, not saying that at all. I’m just saying the due process is different for a citizen and a non-citizen. It’s a much faster process for a non-citizen often.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let’s move onto this extraordinary fight between President Trump and Elon Musk. On Tuesday Musk posted that anyone who votes for the big beautiful bill – the so-called Big Beautiful Bill should be fired in the next election. President Trump told me Musk would, quote, “Have to pay very serious consequences if he starts funding Democrats.” He wouldn’t say exactly what those consequences are. Are you comfortable with the president warning there will be very serious consequences for someone who supports Democratic candidates?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
We have a lot of social media drama going on between two of the most active social media individuals in the world, actually, back and forth on that. And I know a lot of people are focused on that. I would tell you what we’re focused in on is the very straightforward issue that we face. If we don’t address this issue about the tax bill, every American’s taxes will go up January the 1st. Because when the calendar changes, tax rates go up significantly. We’re trying to fight to make sure that doesn’t happen. We don’t want tax rates to go up on every single American. We also want to be able to deal with wasteful spending in areas where we know we can address. We have trillions of dollars in overspending. We’re trying to address as many of those as we possibly can in this bill, finish it, and then move onto the next, to the next. This is the first step in a long process to be able to get our budget back under control.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me ask you specifically about what Elon Musk is saying about the bill. He says it will, quote, “Massively increase the already gigantic budget and burden American citizens with crushingly unstable debt.” In 2022, senator, you posted, quote, “For the sake of our nation it’s time Congress actually tackled the debt and deficit, and stop the spending.” So do you agree with Elon Musk that this bill just adds too much to the debt?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
I do not, actually. And I will continue to stand by the statement I made in 2022. I’ve made those statements for well over a decade now. We’ve got to address the deficit. We’ve got to be able to tackle this. Here’s the assumptions that the Congressional Budget Office makes. The Congressional Budget Office makes the assumption we’re going to have this giant tax increase next year, that’s not going to affect the economy, that’s not going to slow the economy down. We’re going to have the same amount coming in and the same economic activity. No one really believes that’s true. If you have a giant tax increase in January, it will slow the economy down. It will hurt economic activity, and you’ll actually have less dollars coming in. So if you don’t want fewer dollars coming in, then you’ve got to be able to deal with that tax policy. So what we’re trying to do is, as much as possible, keep the tax rates the same as what they are. Only in Washington is that called a giant tax decrease when you’re trying to be able to keep them the same as much you can. And at the same time, to be able to deal with some of our what’s called mandatory spending. Things like Medicaid. I would say we’ve talked a lot about Medicaid over the years. The Medicaid program right now is set up where the federal government gives $9 for every $1 a state puts in for a healthy adult. But for a disabled child the federal government puts in $1.3 for every $1. Well, that’s backwards. And we don’t have any kind of work requirements as we do with the rest of our social safety net. We’re trying to be able to fix that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me jump in here, senator, because I want to ask you about your trip to the Middle East, and we’re almost out of time. You made several stops including to Israel. Here’s what you said about Gaza in an interview after your trip. You said, quote, “It’s unexplainable how much destruction has occurred. Some people think the Palestinians should be temporarily moved out, but they can’t live in tents for a decade.” Given that and the conversations you had, do you support President Trump’s plans for the U.S. to take over and develop Gaza? We have about 30 seconds.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, we’re not taking over Gaza by any means. This is not America’s responsibility to be able to take over Gaza and be able to run it. There are other countries that have supported Palestinians, but don’t support Palestinians actually moving to their country. But you’ve got two million people there, many of them civilians, that are totally innocent, had nothing to do with Hamas. They’re living in the debris field there, and right now the Israelis are getting food boxes in for a week’s worth of food and delivering it in a totally different way. And trying to establish the process for the Gulf states and others to come in and to be able to do rebuilding in that area. So, it is important on the humanitarian side of things, but it’s important also that Gaza cannot run–Hamas cannot run Gaza, and we cannot have terrorists living right there. And we certainly cannot have Hamas continue to be able to hold Israeli hostages.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator James Lankford, thank you so much for bringing us that update to your trip and your other insights. We really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic senator from New Jersey, Cory Booker. Senator Booker, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Thanks so much. Good morning to you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good morning to you. Thank you for being here. I do have to start with President Trump saying he plans to deploy the National Guard to Los Angeles to deal with the protesters there. The president bypassing the governor and federalizing the Guard himself. He says he did so because Governor Gavin Newsom and L.A. Mayor Karen Bass refused to act against the unrest. What is your response to President Trump’s decision to deploy the National Guard?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Look, since years before I was born, law enforcement knows it’s good when there’s cooperation and coordination. For the president to do this when it wasn’t requested, breaking with generations of tradition, is only going to incite the situation and make things worse. We are now at a point where we have a president who sat back and did nothing as people stormed our Capitol, viciously beat police. And then when those people who viciously beat police and led to some of their deaths, therefore, cop killers, were convicted by juries, he then pardoned them all. So for him to be talking to anybody right now about responsive law enforcement to protect people is hypocritical at best.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But–
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
The reality is we see peaceful protests launching in Los Angeles. And again, any violence against police officers should not be accepted. Local authorities can handle that. But remember, a lot of these peaceful protests are being generated because the president of the United States is sowing chaos and confusion by arresting people who are showing up for their immigration hearings, who are trying to abide by the law. He’s arresting them. You see this in communities that are Republican, Trump supporters being outraged that he’s raiding kitchens and arresting people, high schools and arresting people, who are not what he said he would do, which is focus law enforcement resources on violent criminals and people that are a danger to other Americans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator, let’s move on to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, returned to the United States to face human trafficking charges more than two months after being mistakenly sent to El Salvador. In my phone interview with President Trump on Saturday, he called Senator Chris Van Hollen, your Democratic colleague, who of course went to El Salvador to meet with Mr. Abrego Garcia, a quote, “loser.” And he signaled that he thinks Democrats’ support of Abrego Garcia will cost the party electorally. What say you? Do you think that Democrats made a mistake by making Abrego Garcia the face of the fight for due process?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Look, Chris Van Hollen is a champion for the constitution, because a threat to due process rights of anyone is a threat to the due process rights for everyone. The president of the United States has been violating a 9-0 court order from the Supreme Court of the United States of America, including three people he put there himself. There is a unanimity amongst legal scholars that everyone has a right to due process. And anyone who stands up for that, even for people who are– who are not as– that don’t inspire, necessarily, public adoration, we understand that in our nation when you come after our constitution, you are doing the wrong thing. And here is the challenge. Abrego Garcia is back. But there are over 250 people that Donald Trump has sent there, 50 of whom, who entered our country legally who did not get a day in court, who we do not know the truth or the facts of their cases that have been sent– not to a prison– but to a place that human rights activists have said is more of a gulag where people’s human rights are being violated.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let’s now turn to the president’s tax and spend bill. I want to read you a little bit of what Elon Musk has said about it. He calls it a “disgusting abomination”. He threatened to fire all politicians who backed it. He’s arguing the bill doesn’t do enough to deal with the debt and deficit. Do you agree with him?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Well, I agree that it’s going to saddle this country with trillions of dollars of debt, endanger our entire economy. We’ve already seen Moody’s downgrade our economy, therefore making it more likely that interest rates go up. And more and more Americans are paying more. This is a bill that adds to our deficits in a colossal way. And for any fiscal hawk or someone who’s fiscally prudent to be behind it shows that they are more, that they are hypocrites and that they are more in allegiance to the president than sound fiscal policy. But here’s what makes this bill even worse. Americans will pay so much more in order to give tax cuts to billionaires. The average health care premiums for Americans will go up about $900 a year. The average energy costs on Americans will go up about $250 a year. We will see 16 million Americans lose their health insurance and millions of children lose their food supports. This is a morally wrong bill. And it’s definitely, definitely an economically wrong bill as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, senator, Congressman Ro Khanna says that Democrats should be open to working with Elon Musk. So let me ask you: would you personally accept money from Elon Musk if he were to support your re-election campaign, for example?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Let me just tell you, we’re stuck in this right-left divide right now. I will partner with anyone like I did in the last Congress, putting my vote alongside of John McCain’s, Lisa Murkowski, and Susan Collins to stop the tearing down of the Affordable Care Act. This is not about right or left, it’s about right or wrong. And this bill is disastrous for the average American, driving up this cost. This bill is disastrous for our long-term economy. This is an American issue. And I welcome Elon Musk, not to my campaign. I welcome him right now, not to sit back and just fire off tweets, to get involved right now in a more substantive way and putting pressure on congresspeople and senators to not do this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But senator, let me just put a fine point on this: would you accept money from Elon Musk if he were to give it to you? And should other Democrats? Just very quickly.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I would not accept money from Elon Musk for my campaign. But I would be supportive of anybody, including Elon Musk, putting resources forward right now to let more Americans know, sound the alarm– treat this like a Paul Revere moment. More Americans have to understand that if this bill passes, average Americans are going to see their costs skyrocket as this president again pushes legislation that is indicative of his chaos, corruption, and cruelty towards Americans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let’s talk about the Democrats. The Democratic primary for New Jersey’s gubernatorial election will be held on Tuesday, I don’t have to tell you that. This comes as Democrats are still struggling with their messaging, quite frankly. Notably, this week former President Biden’s press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre switched her party affiliation to Democrats– A lot of the gubernatorial candidates are– to Independent, apology. A lot of the gubernatorial candidates have been very critical of the party. Do you think that Democrats have to distance themselves from the party brand in order to win?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Well, again, I think that Democrats right now all across America should be less concerned about the Democratic Party and more concerned with the American people. There’s a trust problem for Republicans and Democrats. Most Americans voted against both of the presidential candidates in the last election. We need to start standing up and showing we’re fighting for Americans right now. And when we have a president that is driving a bill that’s going to rip health insurance away from 16 million Americans, drive up premium costs for 93% of Americans, don’t sit around and worry about party and elections over a year from now and the– on the federal sense. Show that you’re a fighter. Get in the arena. Roll up your sleeves and start working on behalf of the American people. I’m excited about New Jersey’s primary. I’m going to support whoever comes out of it. But my work right now is to stop this disastrous bill that’s in the Senate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you haven’t endorsed in this race. Do you plan to do so? Would you like to do so right here?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I’m going to endorse the winner of the primary. I’m going to be in New Jersey working up and down the ticket. And here’s the great thing. Every special election we’ve seen right now has seen record energy and turnout in America. People understand the consequences of elections. They’re living them right now. But again, we have work today. We have work this week. More people: please get involved. From Elon Musk to people in my neighborhood on this block. We all have a responsibility of a bill this threatening to the well-being and the fabric of our country. Do not sit down. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Get more involved. Do more. Because what’s going to happen if this bill passes– to our neighbors, to the sick, to the elderly, to the disabled is unacceptable.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Cory Booker, thank you so much for joining me. We really appreciate it.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, what’s the impact of President Trump’s messy public feud with Musk? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Melanie Zanona; Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington correspondent for Puck; Symone Sanders Townsend, former Chief Spokesperson for Vice President Harris and co-host of The Weeknight on MSNBC; and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Thanks to all of you for being here, this powerhouse panel that we have. Mel, let me start with you. President Trump told me in our phone conversation on Saturday he actually thinks his rift with Musk has unified Republicans for his so-called “Big Beautiful Bill.” He says that his lawmakers are upset with the way that Musk treated him. Is that your sense based on your conversations?
MELANIE ZANONA:
Well, there’s certainly unity among Republicans when it comes to them being annoyed with Elon Musk. I would not use the word “unity” when it comes to the bill itself. This bill was already facing very significant headwinds even before Musk weighed in. So I think if it does fail, it’s not going to be because of Musk. I ultimately think that if they do pass something, maybe not by July 4th. That being said, I think it’s a messaging problem for Republicans with this Musk criticism, because remember, they empowered Elon Musk, they made him the authority figure on fiscal responsibility. And so for now– them to dismiss his concerns, valid concerns, about how much this bill adds to the deficit, I think that’s a problem. And meanwhile, you have Democrats just eating this all up with popcorn.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, and it could just slow things down. Leigh Ann, President Trump told me he has no desire to repair his relationship with Musk. And yet, J.D. Vance said something very interesting in a recent interview. He said he hopes he will come back into the fold. How important– to the point that Mel’s making– is Musk to the broader Republican Party?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Well, Musk was extremely important in the presidential election. He spent nearly $300 million. He basically lived in Pennsylvania, helped deliver that state for Donald Trump. But Elon Musk has also become a toxic brand for the Republican Party as we saw in the Wisconsin State Supreme Court race a couple months ago. Democrats had been weaponizing Elon Musk against Republicans. And so in this rift between Trump and Elon Musk, Republicans are staying with Trump. Elon Musk had a lot of power because of Donald Trump in this situation. And so what I’m going to be watching going forward is what does Musk do with his money, if he does anything in the midterm elections. Then it could matter. But we’re going to see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That’s where it gets very interesting, Sara. This is still President Trump’s party. But boy, if Elon Musk does start to fund Democrats, it could become incredibly complicated politically speaking.
SARA FAGEN:
I don’t think Musk is going to fund Democrats. I think the question is if he tried to form some third party or independent candidates and get behind them. To me, watching this, it’s a very unfortunate situation because I don’t entirely agree that he was critical to the election. I think he was helpful to the election. But one individual doesn’t really cause a party to win. I think what was important– in his contribution– was really around the intellectual movement of the conservatives and the talent he attracted to the federal government. He did a great job attracting talent. There are some incredible entrepreneurs in all of these agencies, in large part because Musk signaled that this is worth fighting for. It was a huge miscalculation on Elon Musk’s part. Running a political party is not like running a company. And the political graveyard is filled with businessmen, and he just thought he could roll in and in three months change an entire infrastructure that has all these differing power centers. It just wasn’t going to work that way.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, he tried to come in really hot.
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
He saw Trump do it. He thought, “Maybe, too, I could be a political guru.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, I thought from my interview with Senator Cory Booker one of the biggest headlines is he said, “I’m not going to accept money from Elon Musk.” And yet he said, “I’ll work with anyone.” He threaded that needle a little bit.
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
Yeah, I thought he threaded the needle very well, actually. And frankly, it was a grounded response. And what I think the answer should be. There are resources there that many folks out there that have– that could be used to educate the American people about what is going on in this bill. So sure, if Elon Musk wants to use his resources to do that, great. I do not think Democrats, though, should be taking money from Musk, specifically because he gave money to Donald Trump and maybe other things. I don’t know. He was very specific about why he felt– what he felt like the makeup of the Senate was going to be. And I think the question I have for Elon Musk is, “How are you able to be so specific? Do you want to tell us more?” So I don’t think he should be taking money because he feels like Donald Trump owes him. He’s said that. He’s like, “Oh, the ingratitude.” That’s what he tweeted. But I think if Democrats want to encourage Elon Musk to put your money where your mouth is on the issue, feel free.
MELANIE ZANONA:
If you’re a Democrat, though, why would you want to work with Elon Musk–
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
Correct.
MELANIE ZANONA:
–when you saw how quickly he turned on Donald Trump?
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
No loyalty anywhere.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that’s where the Booker comments were so fascinating. Leigh Ann, as we watch this drama play out, we’re also watching what is going to happen in New Jersey on Tuesday, this primary for the governor’s mansion and the question, what it will reveal– what Democrats want to see in their candidates– what they think will be a winning message. What are you going to be watching for?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yeah, so Democrats that I talk to are watching that– who does win this primary. There are six candidates. And you have the progressive mayor of Newark, you have Mikie Sherrill, who is running as a centrist. But they’re watching to see if the woman, suburban, centrist, military veteran candidate can win again, which was a Democratic playbook in 2018 that was extremely successful for them. So is the party moving back to this more centrist mode in their candidates, especially in a primary.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, what makes New Jersey so interesting, Sara Fagen. Let’s look at this graphic. In 2020, President Trump lost by 16 points, but look at what happens in 2024, he only lost by six points, the second largest gain across all states. Could Republicans actually be competitive in this state, and could that be an argument for a more moderate candidate?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think they can be competitive. I mean, certainly those numbers reflect the movement of the middle class toward the Republican Party and the strength of the likely Republican, Jack Ciattarelli, who’s an experienced candidate. But whether Republicans win or not probably has more to do with the Democrats. And I think if they nominate a centrist, they have a much better chance of succeeding. If they nominate one of these progressive candidates, one of the mayors, I think it’s going to be much harder for them to hold the governor’s mansion.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Symone, all of this playing out, and I was just talking about this with Senator Booker, the fact that Karine Jean-Pierre, President Biden’s former press secretary, switching her party affiliation from Democrat to independent, frankly, Bernie Sanders, your former boss, has been urging candidates, “Hey, run as an independent.” What does that say? Where are Democrats right now?
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
Well, when I worked for Senator Sanders he was an independent who ran as a Democrat for president. And I think across the country, you have yet to see folks stepping out to run as independents. You see them stepping out as independent candidates, but on the Democratic Party ticket. Only in New York and I think one other state are they running on the Working Families Party platform. To me, that says, and when we look at New Jersey, for example, I think what’s really important to voters is what these candidates are going to do for them. And if you look at the trend of New Jersey, I think back to when Phil Murphy was on the ballot again and he lost very narrowly. He went and he did these focus groups and he heard what people were feeling is why they voted the way they did. And so I think candidates who track very closely to their voters are going to be more successful in terms of speaking to what they want. Not these labels, independent, progressive, Democrat, whatever.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mel, we have about 30 seconds left. What will you be watching for on Tuesday and what are the implications broadly?
MELANIE ZANONA:
Yeah, I know Sara thinks that one of these more moderates can win over one of these progressives if they get to the general election, but Democrats feel like they’ve tried that strategy before and it hasn’t worked. And so if they do end up electing one of these progressives, it will be, I think, a very strong test case and some really strong clues about where the base of the party is right now for the Democratic Party and where they think the best strategy is to take on Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we will all be reading all the tea leaves on Tuesday. Thank you all for a fantastic conversation. We really appreciate it. When we come back, the celebration of Pride Month here in Washington and a look back at the fight for equal rights. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The nation’s capital hosted World Pride this weekend with thousands of people taking to the streets to celebrate the LGBTQ community through concerts, a human rights conference, and the annual pride parade. Nearly 40 years ago, Congressman Barney Frank became one of the first sitting members of Congress to come out as gay. Frank married his long-time partner in 2012, and a few years later he joined Meet the Press to reflect on the country’s progress on LGBTQ issues.
[BEGIN TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Gay rights were once reviled publicly and Congress was revered. Now those attitudes have flipped. How did that happen?
REP. BARNEY FRANK:
Well, it’s easy. Our reality as gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people beat the prejudice. The central mechanism is there that we stopped hiding, and it turned out we weren’t what the stereotype was. But clearly, there was a point when the notion that I couldn’t get married to Jim when I was still in Congress would’ve been the most bizarre possibility. And by the time I got married someone said, “Well, was it controversial that you got married while you were still in Congress?” And the answer was yes it was. A lot of my colleagues were mad that they didn’t get invited.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, our Meet the Moment conversation with actor Olivia Munn on her cancer battle and surrogacy journey.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Approximately one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. Actor Olivia Munn is one of them. Two years ago, despite receiving a negative mammogram and clearing numerous medical tests, Munn’s doctor made a decision that she credits with saving her life: administering a lifetime risk assessment test that led to a diagnosis of an aggressive form of breast cancer. Soon after, Munn underwent five surgeries in less than a year, including a double mastectomy and a procedure to remove her uterus. Just months after revealing her battle with breast cancer to the world, she and her husband — comedian John Mulaney — welcomed their second child with the help of a surrogate. And now Munn is returning to the screen, co-starring with Jon Hamm in the hit show “Your Friends and Neighbors” on Apple TV+. Take a look:
[BEGIN TAPE]
OLIVIA MUNN:
Well, Keely, since you asked. My husband was just murdered in the foyer of our house, which is now a crime scene. Which is why I’m staying at a hotel. Which is why I need new products. Which is why you acutely observed why I might be in dire need of retinol eye patches. We were in the middle of a very nasty divorce. So there’s a part of me, a disturbingly large one, that is relieved that he’s dead. But, I mean, Keely, I’m feeling guilty as f**** about that because he’s the father of my kids for god’s sake. I mean what kind of person does that make me?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
I sat down with Munn for a “Meet the Moment” conversation about what she calls her “mission” to help other women.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Take me back to that moment, if you would, if you can, when you were first diagnosed, that shocking moment when you were told that you did, in fact, have breast cancer. What was that moment like? What went through your head? What went through your heart?
OLIVIA MUNN:
If you’ve ever been in a car crash, which I have been, “Oh god, no. I don’t want this to happen. No, no, no. This can’t be happening.” And so that’s the feeling I had. And at the same time, I was so focused and in my body because I knew that she was telling me information that I needed to know to get through this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You stayed focused. You fought. You had five surgeries in ten months —
OLIVIA MUNN:
Uh-huh.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Olivia, and that would be hard for anyone. You are someone who’s in the public eye. Emotionally, how did you steel yourself for that battle?
OLIVIA MUNN:
The only thing that came up in my mind about being a public person was that I didn’t want any kind of outside attention or any speculation that I may not make it. I needed it to stay private because I had to stay positive and I had to fight. I couldn’t imagine going through a battle like this and having all this outside noise. And it wasn’t until I was looking back on photos with my son, just as you do. You know, you kind of go through your photos and videos. And I saw this one of him and I playing in the front yard. And I thought, “Oh my gosh. Like, I had cancer then and I didn’t know it at all. And how many other women are out there right now with a clear mammogram, clear ultrasound, walking around, and they don’t know about this lifetime risk assessment test that was free and online and it saved my life?” And so I knew maybe about, I’m not sure, like, it was months into the journey that I knew that at some point I would talk about it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The cancer risk assessment– you had done everything right–
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You had gotten a mammogram–
OLIVIA MUNN:
Uh-huh.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You had been given a clean bill of health–
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And your doctor said, “Get a cancer risk assessment,” something that most women probably haven’t heard of.
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you credit that with saving your life.
OLIVIA MUNN:
It 100% saved my life. I don’t know how long it would have taken me to find the cancer because I wasn’t due for another mammogram for a year. So at least a year.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the National Cancer Institute says that, since you have decided to share your story, more women are actually getting a cancer risk assessment. And journalist Alison Hall says she got a cancer risk assessment, found out that she had breast cancer. And she thinks that you and that test saved her life, Olivia. What does that mean, that you are saving lives– You’re impacting women all across this country?
OLIVIA MUNN:
That makes me really emotional when I think about that because, like, that was my goal, was for every woman to know about this test. That women are finding out about this and it’s saving their lives is just, it’s hard to explain. It’s hard to explain knowing that this diagnosis that put so much fear into me has been able to be turned into something that’s saving people’s lives. And that’s all I wanted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So if you could speak to lawmakers, people in Congress, people who have the power in the health industry to make decisions about the access that women have to healthcare, to the medicine they have access to, what is your message?
OLIVIA MUNN:
We need to be a priority.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Women need to be a priority–
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah, women need to be a priority. You know, our health needs to be a priority. There is the money that is there that’s being spent on so many other things. And without women, there would be no life. I mean, not to sound saccharine, or even to be annoying about that, because people have said that, you know, in the past, and it’s out there, and people say, like, you know, without women there would be no life. But that is the truth. And although I shouldn’t have to say this, because it shouldn’t matter, but, you know, the people who are making these laws, and creating these bills, and deciding over where the funding goes, they have mothers, they have sisters, they have daughters, they have wives, they have girlfriends. You know, don’t you want to save them too? Don’t you want to help them too? If it’s all about money, we can talk money too. It takes so much less money to educate women on their options, to create options for women to have the best healthcare possible, and that’s going to save you a lot of money. So just help us help ourselves. That’s all we’re asking for. We’re just asking that you care enough about us to put money where we need it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because of your cancer battle, you went into surgical menopause. You decided to have a hysterectomy. You, like me, and I had different reasons, but I also couldn’t carry children, and so you decided to go the surrogacy route, which I did as well. And I know that that decision takes a long time to reach. Why did you ultimately decide that you wanted to work with a gestational carrier?
OLIVIA MUNN:
Having our daughter meant so much to us. We knew that we weren’t done growing our family. We really wanted this little girl to be in the world, and we needed her to be part of our family. And that was my option. There was no other option for us. And I just believed that I would find someone so kind, and so warm, and so loving, and who had this calling in life. And so not having the option was the thing that got me through it. If we wanted to have her in the world, which we desperately did, then this was going to be my option. And I would not let my fear, I would not let my concerns and my worries stop my daughter from having a chance to be in this world. Like, that’s what I have to do as a mother is to be selfless and to put my children first, and that was the first step– was putting my fear aside.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How did you do that, your fear, and what a lot of people feel is still stigmas about surrogacy that exist?
OLIVIA MUNN:
I truly didn’t understand the depths of the stigma until I had started researching things more and talking to more people about it, and saying, like, you know, “Are you going to talk about using a surrogate?” Like, then you’ve got to hide yourself so that people don’t know that you’re not pregnant. And I thought, “Well, why would I do that?” Like, I didn’t understand there was a stigma. And I will tell you that since coming out and telling people about using a gestational surrogate, there has only been love. There has only been love that I have received, and people have been so happy for us, and so happy to see my squishy, chunky little baby girl out in the world. She is the chunkiest, cutest, happiest baby, just like my son. So happy. And there has only been really amazing consideration and understanding.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You are such a fighter, Olivia. Do you see yourself as an advocate?
OLIVIA MUNN:
I think there are people who advocate and there are people who are advocates. And to me, I think of myself as just someone who is advocating for women. And it has become my mission in life, there’s just a few things on my purpose list, which is to be a great mother, to be a great wife, to be a great sister and friend, and to help as many women in the world know about the lifetime risk assessment test. I never really had, like, that kind of purpose in life. I was really happy. I wanted to be an actor, and I became an actor. And I just wanted to work on things that I really enjoyed, and have fun, and take risks, but I had no other goal. There was no other thing. It wasn’t like I want to take the career to this place. I was just wanting to live a nice life, and be happy, and now I have a very purposed mission in life.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
If you want to calculate your own breast cancer lifetime risk assessment score, go to the link on your screen right now. And you can watch my full interview with Olivia Munn at MeetThePress.com. That’s all for today, thanks for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.